I've seen blocking bugs too. The last one happens when I
change the port number for web projects: Visual Studio
holds up all the CPU and never returns. Killing Visual
Studio (the devenv process at least) is soon to become a
new sport.
Oops, I had forgotten that in this case, it's not even
possible to kill the devenv process using the task
manager!
The only solution is to reboot. I haven't seen this for
a while for a product...
This, and other issues that have come out in the last
few days, is why I wanted another public beta for
VS2005. We couldn't make them listen though. At least
there's going to be a service pack for the IDE this
time.
Yes, i second the buggy-ness. We develop with the RTM
all day, both win and web, VS just plain exits without
any warning multiple times a day. I've seen this happen
a lot of times when the design time on some winforms
throws an error for example. And when your corrected the
error VS.Net ignores the changes and tries to design the
old version of the form...and than exits again offcourse
*grr*.
Strange.
We started coding in Beta 1 about June and we're using
RTM now. And we didn't have any single problem with the
IDE. And it is not a small project - the solution has
about 30 projects, tens of thousands lines of code etc.
But no WinForms and Web projects (only two small
webservice projects) and no dependencies on third-party
controls. Maybe this is the reason everything works so
fine...
I'd be glad if you'll have written more about these
issues and ways to overcome them if you happen to find
any. We are moving to front-end programming soon and it
will be a diseaster if there are so many problems with
the IDE.
Regards,
Michal
I already found 2 major bugs (one IDE hang and one
compiler error, where it doesn't compile code which is
correct code), and that's in 2 days of working with
vs.net 2005 RTM.
The main trouble is: it's likely MS will not release any
service pack or at least will wait till half 2006.
So a lot of phonecalls to PSS I think :(
This sounds bad!
I downloaded the RTM and haven't installed it....
Since you are an MVP and MS is more accessible to you
than to us regular folk, I'd like to hear what they have
to say about that.
We were planning to move a project to .NET 2.0, but I'm
not so sure it is such a good idea to do this..... maybe
we should wait for a service pack...
What do you think?
:)
I'm having second thoughts about moving from beta2 to
the RTM...
Ariel, RTM is still way better than Beta 2.
"I had forgotten that in this case, it's not
even possible to kill the devenv process using the task
manager! "
even the kill.exe command cannot get hold of it?
Roy: You lucky, you don't play with web projects
conversion.
My biggest gripe is the virtually useless master pages
facility - still broken at RTM stage, and therfore is
not going to be fixed.
1. You cannot get access to the visual designer and
therefore the smart tags if your master page is nested.
2. Since you have to use the Code View on a master
page/child page, you do not have access to the Events in
the Properties Window, therefore you have to hand code
the event stubs rather than simply double-click them.
These two gripes mean that even the simplest asp.net
applications become a code/documentation lookup
intensive nightmare. (can you imagine even atempting to
configure a basic GridView without the smart tags?)
To think I held off until asp.net 2 came about before
jumping over to the Microsoft way of thinking, only to
be let down by the IDE, and going by the feelings in the
community - no service packs just wait for the next
version.
Performance is not very good overall. Plus, intellisense
is so slow in VS2005. I'm really bumbed out about it.
However, I'm confident that they can get it fixed. The
IDE team is a great group of guys and they care about
their product and take a lot of pride in it.
My gripe is with ASP.NET, I thought a new plus was the
ViewState size was supposed to be smaller, guess what?
It's DOUBLED in size. Even with ViewState disabled, that
stupid ControlState is a cow.
Oh, man!! What a bummer :(
And people wonder why I do not want to leave VS.Net
2003. It is comments like these.
Hmm, converted a large project using LLBLGen &
Infragistics controls, have had no issues. We are using
remoting for all our objects.
The only issue I had was when I installed VS then
installed SQL Server, SQL server acted like the Beta was
installed. So I had to back things out and start over.
(Luckily I use virtual machines so I just went to an
earlier image).
Everything seems to be fine no crashes. Of course
MSBUILD does not support C++ projects yet.
My earlier comment about the broken master pages is, I
feel, just the tip of the iceberg. These features are
fundamentally required for ASP.NET 2 development, and I
had assumed they would be fixed by the RTM stage, since
they've been present since Beta 1 - guess not.
I checked for bug reports on the two issues and they are
both 'known' and 'scheduled' for the next release (eh?!)
.... VS 2007(!?) Guess I'll have to go back to
ColdFusion, since I'd be hand coding with ASP.NET
anyway.
It seems that the Hotels were already booked by
Microsoft for the launch. "To hell with a
stable, fast, useful IDE, lets party!"
Honestly, VS 2005 still feels like an early beta, what a
shambles.
T: masterpages is not virtually useless. When used in
the simpler form, I've had no problems.
There ARE however still ASP.Net website compilation
issues. And the whole Website Project deal is just a
pain in the keister. Can't wait for the VS2003-style web
sites again, for us "Enterprise ASP.Net
developers" instead of the Hobbyist ASP.Net
developers. (Hey there's an idea... lets actually target
the customers that are buying Visual Studio for $1000
instead of the people who want Visual Web Developer for
free)
Eric - Yep Master Pages are okay if not nested - but
what a mistake for not making the IDE able to handle
nested ones (visually). I've had to resort to a
masterpage/usercontrol fudge. yuk.
Like you said, it's not good enough for any serious
asp.net developer. The IDE is simply not up to ithe task
of implementing some of it's own advanced features.
These isues are probably because you are installing RTM
over Beta2. May be for some reason Beta 2 didn't
uninstall correctly and your machine has a mixture of
Beta 2 and RTM versions of assemblies.
If you install RTM version on a clean box, you will have
a better and pleasent experience.
Actually, this was on a brand new VPC image with nothing
but VS 2005 and SQL 2000 (Win XP SP2)
I had the same issue. All of a sudden, all System.*
reference were not found. I even tried to delete one and
re-add the reference to System (yes, just the basic CLR
support), VS still did not find it.
On another topic, I don't know if it was an inmstaller
bug or what, but the SQL Express did not install with
the management tools. Since I am depending on the good
ol' Enterprise Manager for managing my developer
databases, imagine my frustration. Even the command line
tools (OSQL, SQLCMD) don't seem to cooperate much.
I installed the RTM on a brand new XP pro machine with
SP2, so what the heck?
T -- VS 2005 doesn't support nested master pages
(meaning a .aspx page inherits layout from a
master-page, which in turn inherits and fills in content
from another master-page) in WYSIWYG mode. VS 2005 does,
though, fully support this scenario in source-view and
with intellisense.
The reason for not supporting this feature with the VS
2005 release is that it is a fairly complicated
implementation to make it work 100% for all scenarios
(since even in the most trivial case there are 6 source
files that the designer is managing at the same time --
3 .aspx/.master and 3 code-behinds). Getting this done
with high quality was deemed too risky for VS 2005 -- it
will, though, be in the next release. It is also going
to be supported with the new Expression Web Designer
product that ships next year (I believe the beta is
imminent).
A work-around if you want to use the WYSIWYG designer
for things like smart-tasks on the GridView is to have a
test master page that you add to your project that has
the same contentplaceholder names as the ones in your
nested-master file. You can then set the masterpagefile
temporarily to that and switch to design-view and have
full designer support for control tasks+property grid.
Since master-page files can be set both declaratively
and programmatically, you can optionally add a statement
to your Page_PreInit() event so that at runtime you
re-point to the real nested master page:
This later step would allow you to have a page that
works in both design-view and run-time without having to
make code changes between changes.
Hope this helps,
Scott
Hi T,
Glad the tip was useful!
Note that the issue you mentioned (adding WYWSIWYG
designer view support for master pages in multi-nested
scenarios) is something we consider a feature request as
opposed to a bug.
The issue Roy reported in the post above, though, is a
bug. I know there are some folks on those teams looking
at it right now trying to figure out what is causing it.
In answer to your question on servicing -- we will ship
Service Packs (SPs) for VS 2005 that provide bug fix
roll-ups to everyone. If you run into a blocking bug
with any supported Microsoft product (like VS and .NET
FX) you can also call PSS and request a hotfix patch
(these are delivered directly to you or your company).
Hope this helps,
Scott
I've sent the offending project bits over to Microsoft.
I got contacted pretty quickly, which is good.
Hopefully, someone will look at this and see what the
problem may be.
Eventualy I had to ditch the project and create another
one, then adding the existing source files one by one to
the project. That compiled and worked just fine, which
means the problem is in the project/solution side.
God, that was a bad day.
Looks like I'm not the only one having bad days with
this.
One tip with weird reference/project issues like these
is to shutdown VS and run MSBuild on the .sln or project
file (msbuild.exe ships in the framework directory).
This does a command-line build with no IDE bits running.
If things don't compile with this, then there is a good
chance the project or solution file is the culpret. The
project file is an XML file that you can open and edit
directly (notepad works) -- and you can sometimes spot
issues that way (for example: if a reference is
missing).
Hope this helps,
Scott
What about the speed issues when running an ASP.NET
website? Any hotfix for this yet?
When I start a website project, it runs fast. As I
started adding DataSource components, and third party
DLL, etc. It slowed down so much I though I had a virus
/ trojen on my machine. Basically it went from <
15 seconds to run, to > 60 seconds to run. And
this is when I change one line in one file of the code.
This is unacceptable, and I hope MS releases a hotfix
for this issue quickly.
Charles: You should consider stating what 3rd party dll
it is. Remember that the moment you start introducing
external factors such as that into the system, it's
entirely possible that they're not interacting the way
they ought. Much like bad video card drivers making the
OS unstable -- people blame the OS when the problem was
FooGraphics buggy driver.
Just today, we traced a problem appearing in .NET apps
to the existance of Sun's Java VM. I've encountered
problems with Sun's VM not playing well with the rest of
GDI, so I can't say I'm surprised.
Scott: I, too, had non-project assembly references
disappear on me today (not in a Web Project). It was
corrected by removing and re-adding the references.
I've also had the "Web" link on the
start page's Create/Load Web/Project panel disappear.
The correction involves resetting the UI settings.
But that's been the limit of the problems I've
encountered. Disappointments, but relatively minor ones.
To the folks saying they won't upgrade to 2.0: Keep in
mind that the IDE is not the Framework. While VS still
kicks butt over just about everything out there, if you
don't want to use it, use something else. MSBuild will
still build, and the code will still run.
I have actually been much happier with RTM personally. I
have been using it extensively the for a little more
than a week and I haven't had alot of the problems
people are mentioning here. The web projects are a
little bit slow, but it is still leaps and bounds over
VS 2003. I am actually experiencing problems with VS
2003, now that I have been doing more stuff in VS 2005.
Design view won't display at all.
Hi all,
I have just started to use ASP.Net 2 (RTM version) and I
am not sure whether this is a bug or not. I would be
grateful if someone could clarify this please.
The problem is that I have a Master page and a panel
object within 1 of the table coloumn, but anything I add
into this panel will simply disappears when I go to
'Source' and come back to 'Design' mode.
Any information would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance - Jay
Geee...this is embarrassing and sorry ro spam this
thread. All of a sudden, it's working again. I will
re-post if I can reproduce the steps.
Sorry for anyone trying.
Best regards - Jay
This is ABSOLUTELY frustrating. I have managed to get
the problem AGAIN, this is unbelievable!!! This is also
happening within a View object as well. I have shown
this to a colleague who is more clued up than I am with
Whidbey, and he cannot believe it either.
The problem is intermitten, but I will provide as much
details as possible and hope someone can reproduce this.
Machine spec:
P4 HT 2.6Ghz.
1.5Gb RAM
Plenty of HD space
VS Version: 8.0.50727.42 (RTM.050727-4200)
The problem is as I mentioned above that when you add
object(s) (text, button, label, etc) into a panel (now
also in View) object, the object(s) disappears when the
project is executed/go into Souce mode. I have even
tried to exit the project (it ask you if you want to
save the Master page and I clicked Yes), then go back
into the project, the objects are still lost!!
I would serious advice anyone working with objects in
Master page (maybe with pages used within ContentHolder
as well) to double make sure their work is saved. Not
that you can do anything about it!
Another small niggles I have is the slow refresh of the
properties window, it sometimes does not refresh
properly when you select another object, which I often
make mistakes with changing the properties of the wrong
object.
I do like ASP.Net 2 (VERY MUCH!!), but this release
really hammer my expected delivery time for my project.
I know the MS team work very hard on this and I hope
this can be resolve as soon as possible.
Best regards - Jay
You guys need *code* to crash VS? I think I'm WAY ahead
of
you -- I just got VS2005 Standard edition RTM from the
MS
Launch event. I thought I'd do a little exploration with
it
and write a couple utilities for my PDA.
So I install the full VS2005 Std. & MSDN
library. I finish
the install, restart the PC, defrag the disk, then
before I
go to sleep I start up Visual Studio just to make sure
it
launches. Ok, it starts, the IDE displays, and it loads
its
default www page on startup.
I decide I'm too tired to do any more coding / checking
it
out, so *all* I do is go into the Preferences / Options,
change to the setting that tells it to load an
"blank
workspace" instead of the default WWW home page
on startup.
I save that change, exit VS2005. Now, the next day, I
rebooted the PC, and tried to load VS again. *BOOM* 100%
repeatedly when I try to load the program it displays
its
splash screen and instantaneously that's covered up with
an
crash/error handler dialog -- "Microsoft Visual
Studio has
It doesn't matter if I start it from the START menu, or
by
clicking on a .cs file or anything else, all it can do
now
is instantly crash. I even manually edited the
"General.vssettings" XML file to
change the startup behavior
in case it was that change that I made that causes the
bug,
no, as far as I can tell it doesn't effect it.
So, yes, VS2005 blows up without even a SINGLE line of
code
EVER having been viewed / edited / compiled by its IDE.
Way
to go Microsoft, I thought I needed my new AMD-X2 dual
core
PC to accellerate your applications, but with new VS2005
technology you can make them crash faster than the blink
of
an eye rather than having to wait minutes or hours!
Maybe they can patent this as IntelliCrash or
CrashCompletion technology?
Why postpone the inevitable, just get it done with on
startup and
don't waste the developer's time by requiring user input
to
cause the crash. ZeroClickCrash technology! Amazing!
Oh and that's the *successful* part of my experience.
The worst bit
was that SQL Server 2005 Express and SQL Server 2005
Standard wouldn't
even install successfully onto a virgin system.
Evidentally someone's
blog implicates SSE as giving installation errors when
trying to install on a compressed
disk folder, so I guess that was my problem. If it's a
system requirement for the
installation folder not to be compressed couldn't they
just TELL you that rather
than having a cryptic and insoluble error at the very
end of the install process?
SIGH. Yep, I'm glad that I wanted to use POSTGRES
anyway; I only thought that
it'd be fun to try the integration of VS2005 / web app /
ASP / C# / database
connectivity with SQL server but since neither one of
those products actually *load*,
hey, problem solved. Back to MONO / Sharpdevelop / GCC.
:)
(ASP.NET woes here too) I've experienced nothing but
headaches with trying to add simple assembly projects to
the web solution. The project referencing doesnt work at
all like it did with vs2003. It in fact appears to be
referencing assemblies rather than the actual projects
themselves. Even though the reference is marked 'Auto
Update' it's definately NOT automatically updating the
reference when the assembly is rebuilt.
Btw, what is up with the absolutely useless and hideous
property pages for the web developer IDE???
Pile the insanely redundant reference issues on top of
the constant crashing of the vbc.exe process while
editing the project and this monstrosity of an IDE gets
a D grade at best. I definately wouldnt be using it if
the framework hadnt improved to much.
Wow! I downloaded VSC# Express last week and I was all
hot and bothered over the cool new stuff with the
DataGrid and the "cleaned up" DataSet
stuff.
I have been telling my new employer that they should
really think about upgrading but now I a very weary of
doing so. They (we) have a very large ASP.NET App that
works just fine as it is and the only reason to upgrade
is the optimized DataSets and the new developer features
like the QuickView/Intilisense. But from your comments I
can see that there are more reasons to wait until there
is a patch/update than to upgrade any time soon.
As for my experince using the VSC# Express; my complaint
is that it is very slow and sucks up a ton of memory AND
AND you can only complie in Debug mode. So instead of
calling it the Express edition that should call it what
it is Shareware.
Being stuck in the North East US I have to wait until
Dec 14 to goto the VS Launch Event but I can see now
that it is going to be a stoning and Joe Stagner is
going to have to use his Martial Arts Skills just to get
out of the building alive:)
What really worries me is that all of the posts above
mine are in 2005.
The first service pack came out in Dec 2006 and here it
is Jan 2007 and the same problems still exist.
I just converted a very large project from 2002 to
vb.net 2005 and the project does not work correctly now.
Forms are locking all the fields from input, events are
firing that did not fire before - it is as if memory is
being overwritten - kind of like my old ANSI C days when
you dumped a string of 11 characters into a string
variable that has a level of 10.